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FrederickFlash Profile
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Identifying Super Powers


Hello, can anyone tell the procedence of this Batman and Superman?

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Note that Batman has copyright marks on both thighs.
According to the back of the card it's a Hong Kong made, but can be a swapped figure.
Bat logo on chest would seem Mexico, but the belt and finish color are not like the mexico ones.
Not Gulliver, not mexican, not estrela, not argentinian pacipa/play ful. My guess this far is that he's GMJ/Palitoy. What do you guys think?


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The card on this superman has a punched ROUND hole on top (not seen in the image). Aside that, card seems fine. Suspicious unattached cape, preventing to examine right leg. No copyright marks on left leg.
Can't really tell the procedence of this one. Any help?
TY!
9/30/2017, 1:28 pm Link to this post Send Email to FrederickFlash   Send PM to FrederickFlash Blog
 
Johnny1378 Profile
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Re: Identifying Super Powers


  The Superman is definitely a slim card Canadian release. I believe they were exclusive to Shell gas stations. For some reason, a number of these turn up with holes punched in the cards. I have a Red Tornado with the same type of hole. I’m nearly positive this wasn’t done as part of the production process, especially since most of them don’t have it. It looks as though a hole punch was used to put the holes on these. My best guess is that employees at some of the Shell stations added the hole so that they could be hung by pegs, in the store.
  Also, I’m not sure why the cape is off inside the bubble. It could mean that it has been resealed, but not necessarily. Sometimes weird stuff just happens to the toy inside the blister. I have a slim card Robin where his cape is up over his head, mostly covering his face, and I’m reasonably certain that it’s factory sealed.

Last edited by Johnny1378, 10/9/2017, 12:37 pm
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FrederickFlash Profile
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Re: Identifying Super Powers


THANKS Johnny!! I've been waiting a couple weeks, and nobody would reply. Thank you for that, really appreciated.
When you say the superman is def a canadian [sign in to see URL] you talking about the figure itself or just the card? Is there any evidence on this figure to tell its procedence? I'm a noob, I'd like to learn. So, I can Identify the card, and I can tell the difference between a pacipa/play ful, estrela, ledy, HK Kenner [sign in to see URL]'t tell the procedence on a canadian (except for the card) unless they're actually made in the same Kenner Hong Kong factory?

And what do you think about the batman? That "bubble" seems very odd to [sign in to see URL] there aren't many super powers with date/copyright marks on BOTH [sign in to see URL]'s have marks on both legs, but this is not an estrela. Ledy has no marks, [sign in to see URL], every single HK Kenner Robin (for example) I've seen has marks on both legs, so Im kinda confused: does every HK Kenner figure has marks on 1 leg only, or some of them have them on both?
Besides HK Kenner (if they did), did other factory had both legs marks figures?
Did GMJ/Palitoy had them on both? Where is this batman from???
If the info helps, I got it on ebay for us$ 100, and superman was on auction and got it for around us$ 60.
I do know resealing exists, but I can't fully understand why would someone take the time and effort on doing it unless is:
- a loose super amigos getting carded to be sold at astronomic prices. (Not to sell a batman for $100 or supes for $ 60).
- a not so rare loose figure (ledy for example) carded as HK Kenner for a higher price.
- a used loose figure (with wear) to pass as a new item.
I don't understand why would this batman or superman, both with very good paintjob, obviously brand new with no wear at all, would be resealed [sign in to see URL] I said, I'm a noob and wanted to learn. I'm in Uruguay so it's very hard and expensive for me to come by with these figures. I've been trying to read all I could, watched many videos and reviews, but there is so little info out [sign in to see URL] example, It was impossible for me to find a picture of a GMJ/Palitoy Batman, or to find a date/copyright marks on each figure database. I have asked a lot, sent mails that were never answered, posted on forums like this one, and you are the only one that ever replied. Thank you for your time.
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Johnny1378 Profile
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Re: Identifying Super Powers


No problem, Frederick.

To clarify, when I said that I thought the Superman was a Canadian release, I was basing that purely on the packaging. Without having it in hand, it’s difficult to say for sure, but my best guess is that it is a legitimate, factory sealed Canadian Shell station slim card Superman with considerable wear to the package and bubble,
  
I’m honestly not sure about the copywrite stamps on one leg verses on both legs, other than to say that, like you said, some figures have it on one and some have it on both. I think it is something that probably did vary from factory to factory. Or perhaps from region to region (Mexico versus Hong Kong for instance).

The bubble on the carded Batman looks like it has some pretty significant yellowing. This was more common with the Canadian and third series carded figures, as it is my understanding that the plastic Kenner used for the bubbles at that time was of a lesser quality than the earlier ones. However, the yellowing can still happen with series one and two cardbacks, and may have something to do with how the figure had been stored or displayed.

I’m with you though that it seems unlikely that anyone would go to the trouble to deliberately reseal a Lily Ledy or a Pacipa Batman or Superman on a U.S. Kenner card to try to get a little more money out of the sales of these two figures. Its possible, I guess, but I don’t think it’s very likely. It looks to me like you got a pretty good price on both of them.

I hope that helps some. Sorry I can’t answer your question about the copywrite stamps more thoroughly. Mike and probably some of the others on here quite possibly could clarify that point better than me.

Anyway, good luck with the collection.

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FrederickFlash Profile
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Re: Identifying Super Powers


I opened both of them. They look and feel great. Superman action mechanism is a bit sticky tho. Best legit fabric paintjob I've seen on superpowers. I'd risk to say Canadian figures are produced on the same HK factory that the usa kenner were, as far as I know.
Batman was not produced in the same factory; because of the logo (thinner line but perfect logo, def not mexican tho) and marks on both legs. But it's also prolly the best batman I've seen, with almost flawless fabric paintjob. Since I don't know better, I'll say it's a GMJ/palitoy. I'm very happy with them.
Thanks Johnny, you were very helpful, maybe some day we can find out some more about the copyright/date stamps, maybe even have a database availabe, so we can trace every figure procedence. With all the super powers collectors in this forum with wide collections including every version of the characters in every languages/card types available, I'm sure that such database would be very possible and helpful for noobs like me. Thanks again!
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Re: Identifying Super Powers


Hey Frederick,

You might want to look in to Rasoul's database... I know he was working on something like that.

I also know Mike (the moderator of this site) wrote an article about the two-stamp Batman a while back... you might want to dig around his site ([sign in to see URL]) to see if you can turn it up.

-M
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FrederickFlash Profile
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Re: Identifying Super Powers


Hey Matt, thanks for your reply!
I have been digging into both sites, thanks to them I came to the conclussion that this batman was a GMJ, but I couldn't manage to find conclussive/decisive evidence. I couldn't find a post on a 2 stamp batman besides the "first shot or not", which talks about the MIM. I couldn't find a pic of a loose GMJ batman, only a carded one, and I have yet to find out if GMJ were the only to put 2 leg stamps on a batman, since US Kenner would do the same on some of their figures but not on batman or superman (like I've stated before, I have NEVER seen a US Kenner Robin with only 1 leg date/copyright stamp, they all have them on both legs). Even when I'd find that out, I will have to ask: did ALL the GMJ used both leg stamps? Spain, trilingual, etc? Only GMJ and not palitoy?
And then: well, what about Kenner? WHICH figures had both leg stamps besides Robin?
Sometimes info is just more important than pictures. A database that would specify for each figure of each wave/card of each manufacturing company and their respective Hong Kong or wherever factory location, would be the ultimate guide.
Like:
Superman:
1st wave US Kenner (HK made): right thigh date/copyright stamp - "© DC 1984".
Cape with yellow symbol stamp with red outlines. Card: etc.
Estrela: No copyright stamp on legs but "ESTRELA" on waist above the belt, on the back. Can't remember the cape.
Pacipa/Playful (don't know if there are any differences between their superman): blah blah (I don't own any).
Canadian Superman: SAME AS US KENNER ????? SAME HK FACTORY???
Robin: US Kenner. 2 goddam stamps. Why ? We don't know. Did Kenner HK factory closed and started to use the GMJ factory?? This database is badly needed, and no one can do it alone, cause you'll need to coup up with every variation of every figure. It's something that every collector contribution is needed.
On my part, since I live in Uruguay I started to track down what happened to poor ol Nibo. Apparently Nibo wasn't really a toy manufacturer but a plastic and general plastic products manufacturer. In the decade of the 90's it went bankrupt and all of their machinery was auctioned (maybe even the steel molds for the super powers figures, if they weren't smelted before just to get, let's say, some stupid steel rods or something..). The place was recycled into another factory that still uses Nibo firm on some plastic products nowadays. I imagine that making the SP figures wasn't a good business for them; since estrela and pacipa/play ful were very near competitors and much larger companies, and prolly overrunned the market rendering the price Nibo would have had to pay for licensing a monetary loss.
I also like to imagine going there, finding someone who have actually worked there to tell me the full story, and why not, to find buried deep within a forgotten room of that factory, an original steel SP mold. One can only dream..
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